According to the World Health Organization (WHO), Brazil is the country with the highest rate of anxiety disorders in the world. In the current COVID-19 scenario, especially as cases continue to rise and the economy slows down, many companies have adopted remote work as a working arrangement, which increases feelings of anxiety and fear among employees, particularly leaders.

In this sense, how can leaders manage their teams while balancing their own anxiety? The first step is to channel this feeling through self-awareness, identifying their strengths and development opportunities, and better understanding their emotions in order to turn anxiety into an ally in their development and growth as people and business managers.

Once this vulnerability is identified, it is necessary to manage anxiety by making more assertive decisions at work and seeking support from the team to handle it in the long term. In this way, some attitudes and techniques can be essential to control this feeling, such as building a support network to manage possible emotional crises; maintaining open and transparent dialogue with the team, providing frequent updates about the company; showing empathy for the current situation of team members; improving time management by delegating tasks and empowering the team; and also fostering self-connection through meditation and breathing techniques, aiming at overall well-being.

This week we brought Mariana Cersosimo to talk about the challenges in this journey.

Read the full interview.

Hi everyone, we’re here with Mari—known to those close to her as Mariana Cersosimo. Mariana is the Director of Talent Management and Social Responsibility at Grupo DIA here in Brazil, and we invited Mari, such a dear person, to talk this week about leadership. We are living in a world and a moment that no one could have imagined—a pandemic situation where we had to reinvent ourselves a lot, a moment that generates a great deal of anxiety. There’s no one better than you, Mari, to share with us and give us tips on how to lead in a world that is full of anxiety.

But before we dive into our conversation, please introduce yourself to everyone. We at Clave already know you, but tell us a little about yourself.

I think it’s sometimes helpful to demystify this word “we also need to be strategic,” which has become a bit of a mantra, right? Everyone says it, but no one really knows what “strategic” actually means. We sometimes think we are being strategic when we’re not. So, in my learning and experience, it was much more about ensuring that any action, intervention, or initiative we want to implement as HR must answer a simple question: what are we trying to solve? And this question needs to be connected either to the priorities the business is bringing or to the broader macro strategy that the business defines for us—and it requires truly listening to the business.

It’s often said that HR needs a seat at the table, that we should participate in decision-making and in strategic discussions—and I really believe that’s exactly the point. I recently came from a more focused area, corporate learning, training, and development, and we realized that if we didn’t truly deliver something of value—something the business would later recognize as important—then that training wouldn’t really matter.

It’s not because a program is designed by HR that it is disconnected or irrelevant. In the end, what we really want is for everyone to perform better, for people to gain new competencies and skills, and for this to translate either into behavior change or into genuine performance improvement.

I think sometimes simple things—when they’re part of our language as we talk with our leaders—help us explain how we can work together, how we can be partners in what you need to deliver, and how we can make your day-to-day easier.

So I started asking this kind of question a lot, even to the employee themselves: what do you need in order to perform your role better? Because again, this connects to daily work—you connect it to something the person can actually feel and see the difference in.

So I think it comes through questions, and I believe you asked how this started, right? I think it really came from this experience—if we don’t talk about it and if we don’t connect to it, we won’t be able to give flow to our initiatives, no matter how good they are. Because sometimes we design something really great, but when you go to the frontline, people say: I don’t think this is what I needed right now, this is not what will make a difference in my performance or in my results.

So I think it’s sometimes about pausing for a moment and asking ourselves these questions—and also asking them out loud, because often we don’t, we just assume.

I think it even comes down to having the humility to say: “Look, I’m thinking of going in this direction—does this make sense? Will this actually make a difference in your day-to-day work or not?”

That’s really great, Mari. That phrase feels almost magical to me, right? “Does this make sense?” Because it’s no use making sense to me, and it’s no use fitting into my HR development plan if it doesn’t make sense for the company and the business moment.

The ability to read the broader context that you bring is essential in order to achieve any result that is truly differentiated.

So, continuing our conversation, Mari, and talking a bit about leadership. Throughout your career, you’ve prepared many leaders so they could manage in an effective way—how many leadership trainings have you conducted, how many leadership academies and corporate universities have you built, and so on. But in your view, from a more practical standpoint, what are the key points for a manager to be able to channel their anxiety and guide people in a more productive way? What does a leader need to do to manage teams in a healthier way?

This is a topic that really opens up a lot of discussion, right? There’s so much to it. But I think we are living in a very special moment. That was your opening, and I agree—it is different; in fact, everything we are experiencing today is different.

And for me, the key point is that we often talk about change, right? Change as an opportunity, change as something positive—but the fact is that our current scenario is: no one chose the moment we are going through. It’s not a change we opted into; it simply happened and affected everyone. And that’s the major shift we are experiencing. It doesn’t matter who you are in the organization, your role, or your level—everyone is going through this process together. That’s why I see this as a very unique moment.

Speaking about the leader themselves, I don’t think there’s much magic to it. It’s much more about connecting with the human side and allowing that human side to show up in this moment.

So expectations are already so high, and people experience anxiety so intensely in their daily lives, that if the relationship with the leader becomes yet another source of anxiety, the likelihood of lower productivity or weaker results becomes very high.

What I always say is that there are simple things leaders can do—especially in moments like this.

One of the things we’ve been discussing a lot in the field is slightly lowering expectations in this moment. How flexible can we be in terms of deadlines and the number of deliverables? Because people are in a different environment; they are going through a different moment. So if, as leaders, we can also bring a sense of calm to people—like, maybe it can’t be delivered today, maybe it will be tomorrow—and in this moment, say, that’s okay.

Maybe this can’t be done for everything, but it can be done for some things. So being intentional about where we can be a bit more flexible, and really listening to people to understand what is difficult for them, allows us to take a closer, more supportive stance. We can have these negotiations and slightly lower expectations in this moment. I think that helps in some way—everyone is in survival mode right now; this is not our normal way of operating. So if the leader can step in to help and support this moment, I think that’s an important point.

The other thing I would highlight—what I call a kind of “package”—is truly creating individual connection with people, even in a virtual environment. This is about empathy and building an atmosphere of trust. How does a leader do that? Often by also showing their own vulnerabilities—by showing that things are not easy for me either, that there are days when I’m not okay, and that’s fine. If we can talk about this openly and turn it into a conversation without fear—where people feel safe to express their concerns—the environment becomes more humanized, and everything becomes easier.

So this connection between the individual and their leader is a starting point. I think rather than talking about “magic formulas” for leadership—because there aren’t any—it’s really about what happens in individual conversations.

I like to say: one conversation at a time, one quality conversation where the person leaves thinking, “Wow, it was really good to have this support, to be heard, to feel valued.” It doesn’t take much for people to feel listened to. So I think this is an important point.

There’s another aspect we don’t talk about very often, but it’s essential: self-care. How do I take care of others if I’m not taking care of myself in this moment? It’s like the oxygen mask analogy—put yours on first, then help others. It’s something we don’t always give enough importance to, but whatever support we can provide to leaders right now—so that they can, in turn, support their teams—depends on them being well themselves.

There are moments when I stop, take longer breaks, and hold shorter meetings. I’m helping everyone, I’m helping myself as a leader, and I’m also helping the team. These small things—how we take care of ourselves—end up setting an example. People see it and think, “If they are doing it, I can do it too.” People really mirror this behavior, especially in the small details.

I think everything you’ve said to me comes back to a central point: self-awareness. It’s about recognizing my own moment to pause—like, “I’m not doing well right now, I’m not in a good place, I’m feeling very anxious, I’m being too demanding on myself.” I need to know myself; I need to have that moment. I would include, within this idea of self-care you mentioned, the aspect of self-awareness.

First, I need to understand who I am—because we tend to do this, right? Human beings are great at judging, and everything we don’t like, we project onto others; we shift responsibility outward. But this process of self-accountability in leadership is fundamental. It’s about understanding who you are as a person and as a professional, and understanding your role as a leader so you can genuinely bring that sense of calm you mentioned. It also means being honest with the team: “Look, I’m not feeling great today, can we have a shorter meeting?”

And when you talk about trust as the foundation of the pyramid of cohesion for a high-performance team, this is fundamental. It’s what allows me to feel safe and confident that I won’t be judged for that moment. People are made of moments, so I think what you brought up is really valuable.

That’s exactly it—this is where consistency also comes in. It’s important for people to see consistency in their leader, because I can’t be different every day. Otherwise, I don’t know what to expect.

I think maintaining your consistency—whatever that consistency is—is very important. Being consistent matters a lot. This moment has also challenged us significantly, in the sense that I obviously need to treat everyone with respect and dignity, but that doesn’t mean I have to treat everyone in exactly the same way. Because it is precisely in individual differences that you build real connection.

Because if I do the same thing for everyone, I end up failing to see what is important for each person. And this is exactly the moment where we need to connect by saying: “I see you, I see you in this process, and what is important for you?”

So maybe something I do with you, I won’t do with someone else—and that’s okay. This also removes the idea that everyone must be treated exactly the same. No. Everyone must be treated with respect, but people will be treated differently depending on their individual needs. At the core, it always comes down to how you allow people to be seen and heard. As a leader, I don’t need to have all the answers for people to feel this way, but I do need to be attentive in listening, generous in intent. You will make mistakes, but the key is that your intention is right. And all of this happens through conversation.

Another day I did a piece of work with my team that will continue again. I’m new in the company, I joined and I didn’t know the people on my team personally—and that is difficult for me, I’m someone who prefers in-person interaction. I wasn’t able to do that, so I asked myself: what can we do here to bring in a bit more trust and familiarity? People need to get to know you—that’s an important point. So we did a very meaningful exercise of sharing more of our stories, important moments each of us has lived through, and then moving into questions like: “What do you bring to the team in your view?” and “What is something that doesn’t work for you, something I should know that would make you withdraw if I did it?”

And then everyone shared a bit of that. So sometimes they’re simple things—that’s why I say that, in the end, it’s really about creating a space where people feel able to speak.

And truly listen—not just pretending to listen, but actually listening. I think this can be very simple, but extremely effective.

Great, Mari, and in your view, is there any big trick or secret for people to better practice listening? When you talk about listening, for me that is active listening. I need to suspend my judgment, understand, and genuinely become interested in what you are saying. What is the big trick, or what do you recommend, so that people can increasingly work on this aspect of listening?

It’s not easy, right? When we think about it in general terms, it’s that idea we all know: we have one mouth and two ears. It’s to listen more than we speak—but this is very difficult for us. Either because we want to solve the other person’s problem, or because we rush to give our opinion.

So I said the following—this is my opinion, right? I think there are people who naturally find it easier, and people who don’t. I believe it will go back to the question of self-awareness, as you mentioned. So if I know that listening comes naturally to me, great—then I should increasingly exercise it, practice it, and use it to my advantage as a talent. If it is not natural, the starting point is first to recognize that. And you can even acknowledge it to your team: “Look, I know this is not my strongest point, so I need your help. When I’m not doing it well, I want the team’s commitment—please tell me.” Because sometimes we don’t notice, and it’s not out of bad intent, but it’s so automatic that we simply don’t see it.

So I think having an environment where the leader can ask for help is important, because responsibility is not only the leader’s—the responsibility in a high-performance team belongs to everyone. But people need to take ownership of that responsibility. I think it’s up to the leader to say: “I’m okay if you tell me when I’m not showing the behavior we agreed on here.” Because then it becomes an agreement. The first step is to recognize it in some way—either through feedback or through an evaluation process—and actively ask for that feedback from the team. And if we conclude: “this really is not my strongest point,” then it becomes about building a partnership with the team. What else can I do? So please tell me when I’m not doing it, I will be more intentional in practicing it. And again, asking for feedback: am I improving? Am I not? Do I need to do more? Do I need to do less? I think this continuous feedback loop is important for us to actually see whether there is improvement or not.

Cool, when you talk about all of this it makes me think about being able to take ownership of the things I’m vulnerable in. It goes through self-awareness because I need to have a degree of humility to go to my team and say: look, this is not my strength, listening wasn’t my strength for this reason. For that reason, if at any point I don’t let you speak or if at any moment you don’t feel heard, I would like you to tell me.

I need a huge dose of humility together with self-awareness, because when I stop to think a little about how we are shaped, we are forged in formal education—there are small exceptions, few exceptions here in Brazil—but we come from a formal education system driven by competition. Entrance exams are based on competition; the one who stands out is the one who doesn’t show the things they are bad at. I need to be good, I need to be good at this, and we are encouraged all the time. I notice another movement now, and it became much more emphasized during the pandemic, which is related to the humanization of relationships.

We have a human factor, where we enter people’s homes. Today you are inside my home, I am inside your home, and that’s where we need to increasingly understand each person’s moment, exactly because of that.

And along with that, collaboration. You mentioned competition, and it’s true—it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or that it can’t be positive within certain parameters, but collaboration has become very strong. Virtual collaboration for now, but it has become very strong. I think it’s about really taking advantage of that, but it’s what you said—that’s why it’s important. Because if I share, if I’m able to share with my team: wow, listening isn’t my strong point and I need your help, because others also can’t do the same thing if the leader has already done it.

So you really start to model this behavior of saying I don’t have all the answers, I’m not good at everything, and that’s how things work. I need people to complement me. It’s not an easy shift—if we say it is, it isn’t. Because, as you said, we have this ingrained—how am I going to show my weakness?

It’s precisely in weakness that we draw out what people don’t know; I usually say that vulnerability is actually a strength, not a weakness.

Mari, I would love to stay here chatting with you because we learn a lot, but I’d like you to leave some tips, especially for leaders who are going through a moment where they feel much more anxious than usual. This can be due to a number of factors—family-related, pressure at work, demands for results, etc. But what advice would you leave for these people? Where should they start? Because when you’re in that loop of anxiety, you look at it like a monster, right? What tips would you leave?

Thinking about everything we talked about, there’s no way not to start by looking at yourself first. So if it’s hard for you, the first thing is to acknowledge that. Don’t try to hide it or pretend everything is fine—seek out alternatives that will make you feel better. For each person, it will be something different.

I’m starting to meditate, I’m doing this meditation practice. So for me that might be it; for someone else it might be dancing, another person might need to cook—finding ways so that we can really work a bit on our well-being. That’s the starting point, it’s extremely important. This whole home office situation brought a positive scenario, we learned a lot of great things, and the downside is that if we don’t stop, our day never ends. So again, we have to be intentional about deciding when to stop, when I’m going to take care of myself without feeling ashamed. Because there was also a time when we would think, how am I going to tell people that I can’t now because I have a yoga class? You will say it, and why not? That’s an important sign that you’re taking care of yourself so that you can then, again, look at the organization and look at your team.

Where should you start? By identifying your triggers. And when things get tough, really having an outlet that will be individual—each person will look for something—but knowing what makes you feel good. There need to be people you can talk to and share with, and that will include your team. Remember that people, deep down, want to empathize with you because you’re going through the same thing I am.

This makes conversations easier. So I think talking more, having short moments but with connection—individual connection with some people—I think I always work in a team and that’s really great, but there’s something very strong about connection.

Can I really understand exactly what that person needs? So 15 minutes a week, but 15 minutes with each person helps. Are we doing this? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Talking about things other than just work—so, yes, I sometimes have meetings to discuss project status, but I also have moments not to talk about work; let’s talk about ourselves. I think it’s about creating spaces where people feel comfortable again to show a bit more of themselves, and that applies to everyone, from all sides.

For the leader, this space is important. First, taking care of yourself, having these more individualized and humanized connections with people that we talked about, and there’s something I’m not sure I can give as advice, but that I see makes a difference for leadership at this moment, which is optimism. It’s very difficult nowadays for us to be leaders if we are not optimistic.

People are there, they want to look at the leader and believe that things will work out. Because if they look and see someone unmotivated, if they don’t feel optimism from the leader, it has a big impact. Always think like this: how much are we trying to maintain that optimism.

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